Gui Costin: Welcome to the Rainmaker Podcast with your host, Gui Costin. The goal of this podcast is to give listeners a unique look into sales strategies from top industry executives. We introduce you to the heads of sales and heads of distribution who will help you understand the inner workings of successful sales organizations — from philosophy to execution. This podcast is essential for sales professionals seeking wisdom from the best in the field. If you're not familiar with Dakota and their Dakota Rainmaker content, please check out dakota.com to learn more about their services.
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Gui Costin: What is up, everybody? It's Gui Costin, founder and CEO of Dakota. Welcome to the latest episode of the Rainmaker Podcast. I'm so excited to be joined by Dan Amir, who's Managing Director, Investor Coverage, at Crow Holdings. Dan, welcome.
Dan Amir: Thank you. Good to be here.
Gui Costin: Dan Amir is a Managing Director in the Investor Coverage Group of Crow Holdings Capital. Since joining the firm in 2017, Dan has helped drive a broad range of business development initiatives and currently leads the firm's effort to build relationships with high-net-worth investment platforms and individual advisory platforms. Prior to joining Crow, Dan was a Vice President at Morgan Stanley Investment Management, where he focused on fundraising efforts for private real estate and infrastructure funds. Dan started his career at BNY Mellon Alternative Investment Services, where he led business development for the company's private equity fund services business. Dan graduated with a Bachelor of Business Administration in Finance and Entrepreneurship from George Washington University in Washington, D.C. Before we get into it, just take us back to the beginning. Where did you grow up? How did you make your way through college and into your career and then to Crow Holdings?
Dan Amir: Yeah, I grew up in New Jersey, so right across the river here. I went to school in Washington, D.C. at George Washington University, and then went back to New York. It was pulling a lot of people back there, and I was one of those that went back. I spent the first 13 years of my career in New York working for large public financial institutions — BNY, Morgan Stanley — always in relationship and distribution type of roles. And then in 2017, my wife and I packed up and made the pilgrimage down to Dallas, Texas. I like to say that it was pre-COVID, so it was before it was cool to go south.
Gui Costin: Well, Dallas is exploding. I mean, it's crazy.
Dan Amir: There's so much energy in Dallas. We couldn't have imagined that our experience would be what it has become. It's just fantastic. So I found my way to Crow Holdings, and we can talk a little bit about Crow Holdings in a minute. But I don't think I could have realized then what I know now in terms of what Crow Holdings means to the real estate industry.
Gui Costin: Let's take it back for one second, just so everyone knows. I mean, Trammell Crow was the godfather of real estate. So tell us — just so everybody has some perspective — there are very few. Trammell Crow is what he started in the late '40s, early '50s in Dallas.
Dan Amir: Yeah, so the company was started by Trammell Crow back in the late '40s, and the name Trammell Crow is really synonymous with being a pioneer in the speculative real estate development business. And those early days from the '40s, '50s, '60s really informed the way we approach the business today as hands-on-the-dirt, blocking-and-tackling real estate type of people. Today, our businesses consist of a real estate development platform that continues mostly in the multifamily sector and the industrial sector. We pursue those activities in 20 offices around the country, and we are a perennial leader in those spaces. The other half of our business is a real estate investment management platform. We manage strategies that span the real estate risk-return spectrum and really focus on property types where we have demonstrated a lot of expertise over a really long period of time — industrial, multifamily, manufactured housing, self-storage, retail, student housing, and the like.
Gui Costin: Oh, wow. So very diversified.
Dan Amir: Yeah.
Gui Costin: And so talk to us about the investors that you focus on, because in the pre-discussion we were saying that it started in wealth and now has moved institutional.
Dan Amir: Well, from a partnership perspective, the business — our investment management business in particular — actually started really in the institutional world.
Gui Costin: Okay.
Dan Amir: In the early days, it was foundations and endowments. And as our business started to grow, we started to engage with partners like pension funds, sovereign wealth, and the like. And over the last, call it half a dozen years, like many of our peers in the market, it has been clear that the trajectory of growth in creating partnerships for private real estate has been much steeper among the individual wealth community than in the institutional world. Institutional partnerships will always be an incredibly significant part of what fuels our business. But increasingly so will wealth and partnering with individuals and families and the various intermediaries that manage their wealth. So we have created a team to focus specifically on this effort within Crow Holdings.
Gui Costin: All right. So give us — what is your role specifically?
Dan Amir: So I lead a team of currently four, about to be five individuals, specifically focused on engaging the wealth community and building partnerships with individuals and families. We sit within a broader client engagement team of people that also focus on institutional coverage. It consists of investor relations professionals, and us being part of this broader team is really important. I think we all know that there are lots of differences between the institutional world and the wealth world in terms of partnering around the things that we do. But there are often overlooked similarities as well. Being part of one team — sitting in the same place — really allows us to absorb best practices and to communicate with each other in ways that benefit our respective activities.
Gui Costin: I think the listeners would love to know — you have a four-person team going to five. How have you chosen to structure that team to attack the wealth channel?
Dan Amir: We really went at it. We hired some experienced individuals, but what's really important is we actually hired people that have different backgrounds. We have somebody that really comes from the RIA world who has specifically focused on real estate and distribution, creating partnerships with real estate investors in the RIA world. We also have somebody who comes from more of the wirehouse background, so a broader distribution capability. And then we've got somebody on the team whose path wasn't necessarily linear from a distribution perspective in investment management and real estate specifically. So having those different perspectives was really intentional on our part, and it has created a pretty cohesive team.
Gui Costin: Oh, that's great. And so how are you structured geographically? Because if we're trying to break down how people should be thinking about the most efficient way to go after and penetrate the RIA channel, that's what I'm trying to get at.
Dan Amir: We are structured geographically. There's this argument as old as time — do you channelize, or do you focus geographically? For us, at the stage that we are at, it really hasn't made sense to channelize. There's a lot of overlap in how RIAs behave, how wirehouses behave, how private banks behave. If we're going into a market, the individual that covers that market is going to cover all of those things. There are absolutely differences in them, but we're cognizant of those differences and we adapt. So we try and be as efficient as possible and utilize our team's time in the best way. For us, it has made sense to really organize ourselves geographically.
Gui Costin: Yeah, I love channel-agnostic. That's how we've set up since the beginning. Being a smaller team of eight, we can do that. As firms get larger — into the tens, twenties, thirties, forties — sometimes you need to get a little more specific. And then I was kind of pointing out to people: when you're going to these channels and there's no revenue in the territory, it's hard to justify generalization. Because you need that underlying revenue.
Dan Amir: That's right.
Gui Costin: Okay. So one of the most important topics I talk about all the time is communication.
Dan Amir: Yeah.
Gui Costin: And as I always say, if you're not communicating with your boss on a weekly basis on progress against your plan, they assume the worst. If you wait a week, two weeks, three weeks — just to make sure you're touching base. Can you talk to us? Because there's communication both ways. You as a leader have to communicate up to upper management to describe exactly what's going on — the consistency of that. And then how do you and your team communicate with one another?
Dan Amir: Well, it starts with — at the beginning of every year, we create a business plan and we talk about prioritizing the partnerships that we're focused on. We measure ourselves in terms of where we are against some of the largest platforms in the industry. On a weekly basis we meet — we're a small team, so it's kind of easy to do, and we take advantage of that even though we're not all in the same place. Vis-à-vis those weekly meetings, once per quarter we are really looking back and measuring ourselves against that original business plan. We're measuring the progress with potential partners — among those that have expressed interest in one or more things that we do, and with people that haven't expressed interest in the things that we do. And the third thing is, we really focus on making sure that we are communicating with our existing investors and providing the service that they expect from us.
Gui Costin: Now, with your team, do you have weekly sales meetings? How do you go about the check-ins to see where everyone is? A lot of people just want to know — A, communication, and B, I always think the team sharing what's working, what's not working, what people are saying about different products so that can inform them. So what's the cadence of that?
Dan Amir: Yeah, we do that on a weekly basis. We have a pretty loose agenda going into the meeting, but it's important, I find, to have some topics for discussion that are important to the team and that are focused on helping us progress our efforts. Week to week we'll focus on different things. But it's all about, at the end of the day, taking our respective experience from the week and what we expect to do ahead, and sharing that with each other so we can benefit from all of those best practices.
Gui Costin: And then what is your cadence or process for communicating to the executive team — for your team and the progress against the goals that you set?
Dan Amir: Yeah, generally we also have a weekly meeting with the broader client engagement team. We generate weekly reports using our CRM, which we can talk more about in a minute. But we generate reports that provide a summary of where we stand with each of our strategies and measure our fundraising goals.
Gui Costin: Love it. It's quite amazing now what you're able to do with AI by exporting activity and getting feedback from Claude or what have you. It's really pretty amazing. All right, so I find it really important — if we're talking to the individual salesperson on this podcast and how they should be communicating, can you just give me the varying degrees of importance of communicating up to the boss on a regular basis to make sure there's no fog, there's no uncertainty around where you stand, and how almost over-communicating but doing it in a succinct way so the boss feels very good about you as the individual and where you stand against your plan?
Dan Amir: Yeah, look, I think it's a balance. You want to make sure your progress is known, but you also don't want to overcommunicate with so much detail that the punchline gets buried.
Gui Costin: Right.
Dan Amir: And so it's really a broader effort. It's not just me. It's leveraging our colleagues in investor relations and tracking, utilizing Salesforce — which is our CRM — gathering the data and reporting on that in a really succinct way so that it's easily digestible by the head of the investor coverage team and the leadership of the business. And then it's recognizing when you need them to weigh in on something. If there's a really strategic decision to be made, making sure that you get that input — and having the judgment to know when you need that — is really important.
Gui Costin: Great. Love it. That's a great segue to the CRM. And the number one question I like to ask with the CRM is: where does it rank in terms of importance of running the business?
Dan Amir: It is so important. It is incredibly important. Our CRM, of course, helps us track our activity. It helps us measure our progress against goals. But it also does simple things like give us the opportunity to record meeting notes and memorialize them, which is incredibly important for all of our activities henceforth from that moment in time. It also gives us the data to draw from to populate pre-meeting notes. When we're doing a meeting with a given partner or potential partner, and there are lots of constituents within the organization involved in that meeting, they need to know all of the background in a very succinct and concise way before they go into that meeting so that everybody is on the same page. The CRM really gives us the data and the ability to do that. So it is indispensable.
Gui Costin: Right.
Dan Amir: And you mentioned AI for sure. AI is helping us to be more efficient. I think we're only at the beginning stages of it. It's going to help us use our time better, but it's only going to be as good as the information that is put in there. At the end of the day, it takes engaging with people, building those human relationships, and memorializing what you learn — so that whether it's the CRM itself or AI digging into the CRM, it is producing information that is actually helpful.
Gui Costin: We are just waiting on approval for our Claude app for Dakota Marketplace. The meeting prep that you can do in two minutes is frightening.
Dan Amir: It's incredible.
Gui Costin: Yeah. And then being able to send it. So my son works at Future Standard, which is formerly FS. We showed it to him last week and he goes, 'If I had had this, it would've saved me 15 hours of work just prepping for one roadshow with 10 public pension funds.'
Dan Amir: Yeah. And that's what I mean. In those exact ways, it's going to create a ton of efficiency. But if it's drawing on incomplete data in the first place, you need to recognize it and correct it. And that's where it comes back to the actual input of the data.
Gui Costin: So I've been writing and blogging about this topic ridiculously the past three weeks. So deep. Everyone thought, oh, you know what we'll do — we'll have our own MCP server, and we're going to have our own Claude app. Okay. And then we're going to connect a bunch of different similar datasets. I'm like, this isn't going to work. You're going to just confuse the LLM. So you need to pick one source of truth. It's not like you can pick multiple RIA databases — that is not going to work. But it's all dawning on everyone now: oh my gosh, we actually have to zero in on one. And then the other thing I was trying to explain to everyone — so important about Claude, if you're going to use Claude or ChatGPT, or sometimes you have to use Copilot if you're a Microsoft shop — is that if you pick a dataset to be your source of truth and then you switch it up after a year, it's not — and I've spent a lot of time talking to Claude about this — it's not the training of the model, right? It's the training of the human being using the model on that dataset. So if you end up having to pull it out, you've just lost a year. You're going to have to retrain yourself on the value that you can extract from that data using this super intelligent tool. These are really big decisions right now because, as I said, you're no longer making a data decision. You're making a strategic business decision. You want all your team training on the same thing. Because then after a year — and then in two years — you become so adept at knowing what you can pull out and how the data works, in what format you want it. And so training and then having to redo it, you're losing a year of time. A lot of people go a year on a subscription. That's why I say a year.
Dan Amir: Yeah. And I think having the discipline to know when not to rely too much on it — doing things like allowing it to give you the framework, but using our brains to fill in some of the detail. I just think it's important to continue learning and to have discipline about it.
Gui Costin: I couldn't agree more. That is the secret. It is a human in the loop on what to ask Claude.
Dan Amir: Yep.
Gui Costin: But then you have to really understand what's the data behind it. It's all about how creatively you prompt and ask the questions, and push it, and the whole thing. All right, well, it's wonderful — and that's never going to change. It'll just become more prevalent because we're just releasing our internal. We have an external MCP right now that'll have all three LLMs connected, depending upon what you subscribe to. And then we'll have an internal connector for our internal Salesforce to use Claude internally. So that's going to allow — because right now I had a big discussion with the team. Last week we were in a meeting with a big client in New York and I said, I think we might have seen the end of call notes. They're like, what do you mean? I said, well, look what I just emailed everyone. The whole company went down — we were at 7 Bryant — went down to the lobby. I looked at Rob, our president. I said, hold on a sec. I opened up Claude, I pressed record, I started dictating what happened in the meeting. It takes me like two minutes. And then I paused the dictation and said, Rob, did I miss anything? There are two other things I think that we talked about. He goes, yeah, there was this follow-up and this follow-up. So I said, okay, add in this follow-up. All right, Claude, do call notes. This is the thing — you're connected to my calendar, you're going to have all of the participants, write me up call notes. And it did it in like a memo, sent out to everyone. I said, okay, redo it into plain text. And literally — next time it'll just go directly into Slack. Just copy and paste it into meeting notes in Slack. Done in two minutes. And Claude's now the editor, the writer. So now you don't have to go back to your hotel and worry about proper grammar or anything. You just dictate and Claude writes it for you.
Dan Amir: It's amazing.
Gui Costin: Right? So now — one of the most — I call them the bars of gold as leaders.
Dan Amir: Yep.
Gui Costin: Getting the call notes into the database is everything. But there's been so much friction. You've taken the friction down 100%.
Dan Amir: Yep.
Gui Costin: It's incredible.
Dan Amir: Takes so much time back in your day.
Gui Costin: Yeah. It's the bane of every salesperson's existence. But now with AI, it's 10x its importance. It was important before.
Dan Amir: Yeah, yeah.
Gui Costin: Now it's like 10, 20x — because now you can bring intelligence out of it if you've done it. And if you talk to Claude, Claude will actually expand and more. We learned this at our data summit — this came up. It was topic du jour: call notes. If you wait 24 hours, your character count goes down 46%. I've seen some call notes that I think — yeah, talk to Brian, I'm going to follow up on 128. That's not a call note, okay? But now you can just dictate — I said, you don't have an excuse anymore unless you're going to tell me you don't know how to talk. It's so easy to talk into Claude, and Claude will do all the formatting. Don't worry, just get the basic concepts. Here are the takeaways. Then if you say, hey, you know what, redo this a little bit but add in this and this and this — Claude adds it right in.
Dan Amir: And it'll become part of the norm, right? Everybody will behave this way and it will make the information that much better.
Gui Costin: And it's so much more actionable right now. You can apply Claude back to your call notes in Slack because now we're able to go, hey, give me a summary from — because Slack, the Slack bot, Claude for Slack, is so powerful where we just have channels, all these different channels. One is just software meeting notes. I can just say, hey, give me a summary of all the software interactions — there's over 100 this week. What are the key takeaways and trends that you're seeing? Just give it. We're just sharing some best practices. This is moving at light speed.
Dan Amir: It really is. And you have to have resources dedicated to figuring it out.
Gui Costin: Yeah.
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Gui Costin: Obviously, I wrote a book called Be Kind recently — my third book, a lessons-learned leadership book. Not the ivory tower. When I sent the transcript to my mom, she read it and goes, honey, do you think you're being a little too honest? And I said, no, Mom, anyone who reads it is going to know my antics over the years. But from 2020, it's completely just gone very — but still playing it super hard-charging. Can you just characterize your leadership style and how you think about leadership?
Dan Amir: Yeah. For me, I think a really important part about being a leader is understanding the people on your team. They are motivated by different things, they work a little bit differently, and I do think it is a leader's responsibility in part to adapt to that. But the really important thing is to hold everybody accountable in a consistent way — and that's when you leverage things like data and what have you. I think it is incumbent upon a leader to adapt. I also think it's incumbent upon a leader to give the team the tools to be successful and then trust them to get the job done. Nobody likes feeling like they're not trusted, and they do not perform their best in that situation. So I think that is really important. And the last thing — I would go back to what I mentioned before, which is hiring in the first place. You want to screen people for those that you feel like you will be able to trust over a long period of time. But it's also important to hire people from different backgrounds that offer different perspectives. I think that creates a richer team and allows you to engage with the market in a much more meaningful way.
Gui Costin: Can you expand just a little bit on trust? Because I couldn't agree more. Treating people like adults, trusting them to get their job done, but making them accountable. How do you think about trust?
Dan Amir: Well, for me — we are lucky enough to work within an organization that broadly operates that way.
Gui Costin: So it's a cultural thing at the top.
Dan Amir: It is a cultural thing from top to bottom, and it has always been that way. For me, trust is letting the team do their thing and trusting that they'll reach out to me if there's a question or if they need help on something — not micromanaging in any sort of way. We have hired professionals to do a job, and trusting them to get it done is — you know, we have to give them that credit.
Gui Costin: And I also think the communication to them — but I always said to our team, look, I'm not here to be a babysitter or a wet nurse. I trust you. We're going to treat you like an adult. I expect you to get your job done, and we're going to have a lot of fun together.
Dan Amir: That's right. And look, as a team gets larger and broader and is multiple levels, that job becomes harder, but it's no less important.
Gui Costin: Yeah, love it. Okay, so the final three questions — some of my faves. What would you tell a young investment salesperson getting into this? What advice would you give them getting into the industry today?
Dan Amir: Yeah. First and foremost, you have to come in with a genuine attitude of wanting — not just being willing, but wanting — to work hard, not thinking you're above any given task. That is the most important thing. The other thing is just having intellectual curiosity, wanting to learn the business and the industry, but then being smart on the world and current events. I just think that makes people want to engage with you more, and that's part of this job. So I think that's a really important thing. The last thing, and maybe the most important, is to really exercise your ability to be self-aware. I think that's really important from the get-go, and it only helps you as you grow in your career. So those are three things that I think are really important.
Gui Costin: So reading the room, having EQ, having self-awareness of your own behavior. I love that. I really think that's the key intangible for anyone in any situation — being able to read the room, seeing what's going on.
Dan Amir: Yep.
Gui Costin: And having that EQ.
Dan Amir: Yep.
Gui Costin: Love it. All right. We're all faced with challenges as leaders every day. What right now is one of your biggest challenges and how are you overcoming it?
Dan Amir: Well, I would say it's no secret that the last several years have been difficult in private real estate from a fundraising perspective — building partnerships. But really good sales professionals, people who are out there building partnerships with investors, certainly thrive on raising capital and putting points on the board. In a difficult fundraising environment, one of the challenges is maintaining that motivation. A lot of that comes from just giving the team the support to be out there in the market — not necessarily in a pressure-filled situation, but allowing people to build real, durable relationships and partnerships that aren't transactional in nature. We're not a transactional firm from a relationship perspective. Those are the kinds of things that help to keep people motivated, even if you're kind of in an adverse market environment.
Gui Costin: I think that's one of the most important — and most subtle — comments you've made in this whole conversation: about not putting pressure on an investment salesperson. I've always had the philosophy that we're not raising money. What we want to do is build relationships and see if there's a fit. The reason being is, if you put pressure on an investment salesperson, they generally tend to say really weird stuff, because it's like, the boss is expecting this. Sometimes you've got to take no for an answer. There's just not an interest right now. There might be in six months, nine months, a year and a half — but not today. And then maintaining that relationship and that respect, where it's just like, no, this is where we stand. I love your strategy, but now's not the right time. Okay, great. On to the next one.
Dan Amir: That's right.
Gui Costin: Right.
Dan Amir: And look, we're fortunate enough to work for a firm that allows you to be who you are as a human being and not this relationship-building robot.
Gui Costin: Yeah, totally.
Dan Amir: Which is weird. I'm just a guy from New Jersey who found this home in Dallas, Texas, and have never felt more like myself professionally. That's in large part because of the culture that the firm has created, which isn't a pressure cooker.
Gui Costin: I love that. So ending with a few questions just on tactics and execution. I've been calling on the RIA channel since 1997. And it's obviously the new — after 30 years — institutional channel, but we'll have to have a separate conversation so I can absorb everything that you do. I've always loved it because they're such entrepreneurial people. And if you have an entrepreneurial firm, which generally if you work for somewhat of a boutique — which I've always worked for — you can really relate to what they're going through on a day-to-day basis. Can you talk about how, in your opinion, you apply that institutional rigor to the wealth channel?
Dan Amir: For us, it's kind of programmed from the beginning, and it goes back to a lot of the things that we've already talked about. It is having a process of creating a business plan, laying out your goals, knowing what your KPIs are to measure your progress against those goals — but also being able to step back and allow people to be who they are. I think that's an element that's common to success, whether you're raising institutional capital or wealth capital. It's balancing the discipline and the process with the intangibles — the fabric that actually builds those relationships and creates those long-term, durable partnerships.
Gui Costin: It's so interesting because, in a lot of ways, when you — and I love taking the institutional approach to the wealth channel and having all those same processes. I think it's a little overcooked where people think that they're completely different worlds, when really at the end of the day, if you go to Boston over the course of five years, you're going to have someone who worked at Cambridge as a private equity analyst who now works at SCS and they work for the RIA. Trying to say that there's — I mean, those RIAs that I've called on for my entire career are some of the smartest, best, most rigorous investors on the planet.
Dan Amir: Couldn't agree with you more. And the reality is, in the wealth world, there are three different constituents in any given process. There's the research, diligence, or origination folks at the wealth platform. There's the financial advisor. And there's the end investor. They all have different things that are important to them. And it's incumbent upon us, as the people that are building relationships, to be mindful of the motivations, the demands, the desires of each of those constituents in the process. But the first one — that product origination or due diligence person at the wealth platform — that is institutional to its core.
Gui Costin: Totally.
Dan Amir: And so it happens to serve a different type of market constituency. But for us, we get to leverage everything that we've done in building institutional relationships and apply it here in a very real way.
Gui Costin: That's awesome. Last question. So a lot of volatility in the stock market, Magnificent Seven, public equities. We've seen this huge move for alternative investments for individual investors. Could you just give us your perspective and why — I mean, obviously you talk in your book, but why you love private real estate for individual investors, more alts versus the publics?
Dan Amir: Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's important to avail the market of the different types of opportunities that are out there. Obviously, there has been this shift towards alternative vehicles. And instead of saying semi-liquid, I'll say semi-locked, and manage the psychology a little bit more. But there's always going to be a place for this because I look at our capabilities, and we want to be able to deliver the expertise that has existed within the four walls at Crow Holdings to as much of the market as possible that has the capability to absorb it. That's going to mean creating different structures over time. It's going to mean offering strategies that have different risk-return profiles. But it's really important to bring alternatives — whether it's private real estate, private equity, credit, venture — to a market that is willing to learn about them and consume them. The 'learn about them' part is really, really important. Obviously, we have seen a significant amount of flows come into non-traded REITs, BDCs, '40 Act funds. These types of structures will continue to be important in the market, but it's incumbent upon advisors and platforms to educate their clients, and for clients to educate themselves, in gaining exposure to these types of investment opportunities.
Gui Costin: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Dan, can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this.
Dan Amir: This is great. I really appreciate it.
Gui Costin: One thing that really came up with you is your underlying passion for people and process, which is really sort of the key — and a really deep understanding, a very thoughtful way about how you think about your career.
Dan Amir: I appreciate that. It's been great to connect with you, and it is really about the people. All the technological capabilities that we have — it'll be the people that drive it.
Gui Costin: Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thanks for being on.
Dan Amir: Thank you.
Gui Costin: All right, everyone, that is a wrap of another episode of the Rainmaker Podcast. Thanks so much for joining, and we can't wait to see you on the next episode of the Rainmaker Podcast.
Narrator: You can find this episode and others on Spotify, Apple, or your favorite podcast platform. We are also available on YouTube if you prefer to watch while you listen. If you would like to check up on past episodes, check out our website dakota.com. Finally, if you like what you're hearing and seeing, please be sure to like, follow, and share these episodes. We welcome all your feedback as well. Thank you for investing your time with Dakota.
