Robert Morier: Welcome to the Dakota Live! Podcast. I'm your host, Robert Morier. The goal of this podcast is to help you better know the people behind investment decisions. We introduce you to chief investment officers, manager research professionals, investment consultants, and other important players in the industry who will help you sell in between the lines and better understand the investment sales ecosystem. If you're not familiar with Dakota and our Dakota Live! content, please check out our website at dakota.com. Before we get started, I need to read a brief disclosure. This content is provided for informational purposes and should not be relied upon as recommendations or advice about investing in securities. All investments involve risk and may lose money. Dakota does not guarantee the accuracy of any of the information provided by the speaker, who is not affiliated with Dakota. Not a solicitation, testimonial, or endorsement by Dakota or its affiliates. Nothing herein is intended to indicate approval, support, or recommendation of the investment advisor or supervised persons by Dakota. Today's episode is brought to you by Dakota Marketplace. Are you tired of constantly jumping between multiple databases and channels to find the right investment opportunities? Introducing Dakota Marketplace, the comprehensive institutional and intermediary database built by fundraisers for fundraisers. With Dakota Marketplace, you'll have access to all channels and asset classes in one place, saving you time and streamlining your fundraising process. Say goodbye to the frustration of searching through multiple databases and say hello to a seamless and efficient fundraising experience. Sign up now and see the difference Dakota Marketplace can make for you. Visit dakotamarketplace.com today.
Our guest today is Scott Lavelle. Scott is a Managing Director and Head of Investment Advisor Research and Product Management at PNC Bank. Based here in Philadelphia, Scott oversees the teams responsible for sourcing, vetting, and monitoring external investment managers across public and private markets while also guiding how those strategies are structured and delivered to clients. PNC Bank is one of the largest diversified financial institutions in the United States. With capabilities spanning retail banking, commercial and corporate services, wealth and asset management, as of September 30, 2025, the firm reported approximately $440 billion in assets under administration, serving clients nationwide. Within that platform, Scott plays a central role in shaping an open architecture investment framework focused on fiduciary discipline and long-term outcomes. His perspective is shaped by a career that spans the full investment ecosystem. He began as an equity trader in 1998 during the dotcom volatility, later served as a portfolio manager at Wells Fargo Wealth Management, and worked as an investment analyst at Sage Financial Group. Scott is a graduate of Boston College and holds the rare combination of CFA, FRM, and CAIA designations. His work includes advancing the active/passive coexistence framework, negotiating structural alpha through fees, and strategically using vehicles such as ETFs and collective investment trusts. Scott, thank you so much for being here. You're in the Philadelphia area, but it's still a pleasure for us to host you in the Philadelphia studios here at Dakota. So thank you for being on the desk.
Scott Lavelle: Thank you, Rob. Really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you and appreciate you having me.
Robert Morier: No, it's great. We've had a few conversations to date, and we've really been able to get to know each other and get to understand what you do and what you've done over your career. We're not too far in age. We don't talk about age here on the podcast. But you did start in the late '90s at a very interesting time in the market, the peak of that dotcom volatility. What drew you to the industry? So think back to that classroom in Boston College. You're thinking about what you want to do.
Scott Lavelle: I read Market Wizards around that time and had a friend from high school whose brother was a floor trader. So I had, between those two influences, some window into what trading was. And that was what I wanted to pursue after BC.
Robert Morier: When you thought about moving from the desk, effectively, into more of a practitioner role, there tends to be a very deep divide between the buy side and then somebody evaluating that manager. Why did you want to get into that evaluation seat?
Scott Lavelle: So when I was trading, you're on a desk, a lot of people implementing essentially the same strategy, but wildly different outcomes and different approaches within a framework. And I always loved talking with the other traders about what they were seeing, how they were interpreting what was happening in the market, and then what they were doing about it. Manager research was an opportunity to do that on a different, larger scale… the ability to talk to market participants, some really smart people who are trying to solve a very complex puzzle. To me, I can't think of a more interesting job and more rewarding in the sense of being able to talk to some very smart people who are doing some very interesting things.
Robert Morier: What was that like for you as a young person? I think about my students in the classroom at Drexel. They're in this very interesting class right now where we're teaching them manager research and due diligence. And they're having to meet these very smart asset managers who are working to achieve assets from the allocator, from someone like yourself, when you first went into that role. But you're new in the role. You're new in the industry. How did you get over those early hurdles?
Scott Lavelle: Yeah. It was a gentleman who had been a floor trader, took the model from on the floor to off the floor, meaning, on the floor, you would typically take young people. You'd stake them, train them, and then let them go, split the P&L. So he had a class. He called it a training class, took 30 of us. It was one of those where, first days, 20 of you won't be here in a year. You'll self-select out. Maybe seven or eight of you will grind it out for a little bit. And if I'm lucky, one or two of you will be profitable and make it all worthwhile. Two weeks of classroom training and then away you go, live training. Small one lots. Allocate your capital. But there's a few things that I remember from that, one that I've taken, manager selection, manager research, to the team. He had a few mantras. One is, always have a reason for your action or inaction. We had phones in the desk. We would typically be calling out. The only time we got a phone call was from him. And he would just ask you, why are you flat? Why are you long? Why aren't you long? Whatever it might be. And you needed to have a well-thought-out answer. And I think about that when we're evaluating managers too. Every decision, even if it's a decision to hold… so we're not taking action… but that decision must have a reason, intention behind it. Two other quick things, always, was to, in his words, preplan your actions. And so for a manager, it's, what are the triggers that are going to lead you to re-evaluate after you've hired them? Decide that in advance and think about how you're going to interpret performance depending on the market environments when you hire them so it's not in the heat of the moment. And then the last thing I took from that experience was he talked about it being a trader business. So he had to wear suits, ties, white shirt, which was unusual just to drill in. It's a business and there's an entrepreneurial component to it. You're building your own trader business. For us at PNC… and there's been a few of us that have been on the journey together. But those who have come and gone over the years, we've built our investment process, built the platform. We're now mature. But there is a period of building where that entrepreneurial mindset was applied and not just by me, but by some really fantastic colleagues.
Robert Morier: It sounds like there were a lot of lessons in there around accountability and responsibility, as well, which I think is interesting. So as an allocator, you're not physically managing the money. So you're not the portfolio manager. But you're responsible for the institution that you represent and that you hope that the portfolio manager is taking that same level of responsibility with your assets, the fiduciary duty. Did that lesson come through from this particular manager, this particular mentor?
Scott Lavelle: It did come through. And it's been a lesson that's been reinforced over the years through other mentors. But just the idea that there is an enormous responsibility that comes to us when deciding to identify a manager, offer it to our clients, that's significant, even millions of dollars that can flow into that manager. So it's a responsibility to make sure that we are doing very deep research, that that decision is very well thought out, and that we're standing behind it, but we're also remaining open to new information. So if we change our opinion, we can be decisive and make the best decision both at the inception and going forward.
Robert Morier: How did you end up at PNC?
Scott Lavelle: I didn't know what manager research was for most of my career, so was a trader for eight years.
Robert Morier: Neither did I.
Scott Lavelle: Yeah. Had some portfolio management for a few roles. And it was when I was in a portfolio manager role at a bank, there's this approved list of managers. You know, who does that? How does that work? And that's when I learned about manager research. There was an opportunity at PNC to join the team as an analyst… a lot of conversations. And ultimately, I was able to join the team, covered a few different equity, fixed income, some alternative strategies. But it's a little bit of I don't want to call it serendipity, but just timing, when there's an opportunity that arrives. And happened to be talking to people in the industry who introduced me to some folks at PNC and led me to join the team.
Robert Morier: I think serendipity is an underappreciated attribute in our industry. We like to call it headwinds and tailwinds. But the reality is, a good tailwind usually means good timing, maybe a little bit of luck. The skill is absolutely in there. And I know you as a manager research person look to extract that skill and see how much of it is timing versus luck. But I appreciate you sharing that. I also appreciate your honesty around not knowing anything about the manager research process. I was exactly the same.
I had started at Julius Baer. I was working in manager research… not manager research, but market research before that. And I had a family member who worked at a very large investment consultant. And I had no idea what that investment consultant did. I had no idea what he did. And I called him. I said, I've got this job. I'm at Julius Baer. I'm working as an associate. And I think you do. You're in this industry. It turned out he was at Meketa, and he was a very senior consultant there. And he's like, when you figure out what I do, call me. And then we'll go through the process, and I'll give you some lessons. But until that time, I was not permitted to call that family member.
Scott Lavelle: Understood.
Robert Morier: Yeah. Yeah, but that's great. I appreciate that. Whenever I see a CFA, FRM, and CAIA, it's like the Oscar, the Emmy, and the Tony. So you've won all three awards. But are you a glutton for punishment? Or how have those three designations contributed to the way that you think about your role today?
Scott Lavelle: That was a little bit of you're in the mode… I started with the CFA. You're just in the mode of studying and might as well, while you're in that mode, keep it going a little bit. I think they all give a good academic perspective on different components of the investment process, certainly with good fundamental underpinning of different asset classes. And I think it becomes a good marriage of that, I call it, book learning. Once you start talking to a number of managers and seeing how some of what you learned whether it's in the CFA or the CAIA, is applied in the real world, it helps you understand what they're doing from a technical perspective or a theoretical perspective. But you get a sense of how it shows up in the real world. So for me, I think it's just maybe given a bit of an ability to understand strategies from a more holistic viewpoint. What those are more of a measure of, to me, is capacity to manage your time and learn. I don't think you get any of those designations and you're all of a sudden, an expert and should be entrusted with a lot of responsibility solely on those designations. But I think it does show a basis or capacity, interest to learn and pass a few tests.
Robert Morier: A credential never hurts.
Scott Lavelle: Doesn't hurt, no. That's good.
Robert Morier: I always have students in the back of my mind. And they often ask, should I continue on and go get my MBA? Should I go into the market and then work on a designation? Typically, the CFA is where they'll start. So it's helpful to hear it from your perspective. Going back to manager research, I've heard you or read you describe manager research like building a championship roster of, basically, a sports team. So when you think about it in those terms, is it money ball? Or are you looking for the star players and you hope to get enough of them that you can build a championship team around them?
Scott Lavelle: That's a great question. So that analogy first came from… I was talking to clients, and I realized I had a hard time explaining what manager research was. Because I had a lot of glazed eyes. You start with the funnel chart, start walking through the process, and put people to sleep. So I thought of it more we're looking, we're a general manager putting together a roster. So to your question about money ball, it's both. There's the quantitative component. There's the qualitative component. I use that analogy to show there's… you go to the NFL, the combine. It's all the measurables… speed, strength. And then there's a whole separate set of tests for character, capacity to learn, work ethic. That's more the qualitative part. So you need both of those components. And if you overemphasize one or the other, you may miss something. When it comes to which one's more important… quantitative, an analytical approach versus the qualitative approach… I mean, this is a personal bias… at the end, it's people who are implementing the process, understanding those people, those process, how they work together, some of the qualitative aspects of it, what success and rough times can do to a team functioning together, the ability to consistently apply that process, I think it helps formulating an opinion going forward. The stats, the quantitative, the money ball helps to understand the past. But for a forward-looking assessment, I think the qualitative evaluation is the key part.
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Robert Morier: In your experience over the years, what questions or observations have you asked or found that have yielded the most results in understanding the person?
Scott Lavelle: I don't have a set of magic questions, but I do tend to have…
Robert Morier: You don't have magic questions? We have to end this podcast. That's what we want. That's the money question.
Scott Lavelle: The money question. But for me, it's turned out one of the major things I like is self-awareness. And self-awareness, it's about their strategy, so understanding good environments, bad environments, but also understanding where there may be shortcomings, but also where they may be a little bit better than their competition. Self-awareness about their team, how they function well, maybe areas they need to improve, and about themselves, how they can use the team to help them in areas that maybe they're not as… maybe shore up their strengths, so to speak. And that leads to, then, how do they construct the team around them? So without that awareness of their strategy, themselves, what they need as a team, or with that self-awareness, I should say, I think it leads to thoughtfulness about how to continue to implement a strategy that's been successful, what learnings they may need to take as they go through different market environments, and what people they may need to include or maybe exclude over time to continue their success.
Robert Morier: Another question I always like to ask is, when do you know when it's time to stop asking questions? When is it time to pull the trigger one way or the other, meaning you're going to move forward with this manager or we're going to put them on hold? We're going to keep them in a pattern until there's maybe a better opportunity. Or sorry, you're not right for the platform.
Scott Lavelle: The mark of an experienced analyst, to me, is knowing the right questions to ask. So it isn't an endless stream of questions just to gather information, but it's knowing the right questions to ask. So to your question about, when do you stop? when you know enough to know what's really important and what matters with that firm or what strategy and when you've asked the questions to get the right information for those key criteria, that's when you know it's time to stop. And then for us, bringing a strategy on, we're typically quite clear on what we're looking for when we're adding in terms of exposure or approach. So the deselection part, when to stop, is somewhat easy to answer. Like, does it fit? But then when to continue or when to add, that gets to understanding, what really matters about this strategy, this firm? zeroing in on that. And when you've asked the right questions to give you the right information, that's when you stop.
Robert Morier: What's the average amount of time it takes for you to come to that decision?
Scott Lavelle: So there's a few factors that can elongate or shorten the process. Some of it is just familiarity. We try to have an active bench. So be familiar with strategies that, if something happened with an existing manager, we'd be able to move on quickly. So if we have existing familiarity with that bench, we can move faster. If it's a newer space, newer strategy, the timing between investment due diligence to operational due diligence through the contracting, it could be, I'd say, on average, roughly six months, maybe a little bit longer, a little bit shorter, depending on, also, how willing our partner is to provide the information that we're asking for.
Robert Morier: I was thinking about portfolio managers calling their salesperson. They just got a meeting with PNC. And I can hear the question being, can a bank move fast? Is it possible?
Scott Lavelle: It's against the DNA, yeah.
Robert Morier: Well, it's such a highly regulated industry. So it makes sense why there's a more measured pace, relative to a family office, which is what this morning's release was, a very different governance environment, very different structural environment, very different liquidity needs, and most importantly, a very different client base. So it's a question with a wink. But I think it's a question that a lot of asset managers do have. They know that you're a smart manager research person. PNC historically has been very accessible. They take meetings, and they ask good questions. And you feel good after a PNC. But that then begs the question around the efficiency of the decision making. So I appreciate that. But I am curious.
Scott Lavelle: Would you get married after the first date or the second? Some people do. I don't know how long those last. And I say that because when we bring a manager onto our platform, our intention is that it's going to be a long-term partnership, maybe not till death do us part. But it's serious in that way. So we do a lot of work up front to make sure it's the right partner because we are very selective. And so we want to make sure, if we're entering into a long-term partnership, we've had more than just a couple dates.
Robert Morier: That makes sense. Meet the family.
Scott Lavelle: Meet the family. That's right. Yeah, makes sense.
Robert Morier: For the active managers who are listening in and to our audience who is interested particularly in active equities, you've argued that choosing passive is in itself an active decision. So when you think about the passive-versus-active discussion, could you help us understand where you're utilizing passive and where active still has a place in your portfolio?
Scott Lavelle: So there's two things I'll preface my comments with. Number one, I have to give credit for the passive is an active decision to Mark Hoffman. He's now CIO at Fulton Bank. But it's something he said to me when he was running our alternatives platform that has stuck with me. And you see how different the exposures are between particularly in the midcap, small-cap, Russell, S&P, CRSP indices. They're very different. So deciding which one to use makes a big difference. And then as far as where we are using passive in our portfolios, I'll preface this again. It's a bigger decision than just me. But typically, what we're trying to do is, where do we have the best opportunity to, quote, "win" given what we believe is the opportunity in the market right now? What gives us an opportunity to express as precisely as possible our house view? There are some specific views that as a firm we'd like expressed. We often find passive is an easier way to express those targeted views. And then third is we always think about how we're using our, quote, unquote, "fee budget" responsibly. And are we spending our fee budget in the places where we believe will get us the best chance to leap over that fee hurdle?
Robert Morier: I've just heard every hedge fund manager, a collective ugh, meaning fees are a sensitive topic amongst most managers, almost all managers other than maybe the passives. But even then, it's like, how low can you go in terms of how you structure it? But when I hear fee budget, it begs the question as to whether or not there is room in your portfolio, particularly in public markets, for hedge funds.
Scott Lavelle: Our evaluation process when we're looking at performance is we have a question that the analysts have to answer, which is, do you believe they can earn their fee? So we're looking at performance net of fee. So we're not just simply saying, oh, that's an expensive strategy, a hedge fund strategy. But we're looking at, can they deliver returns that will provide value in excess of that fee? So we do have a hedge fund platform. We do have an allocation to hedge funds. We do believe there's a place for them. But we also believe that one needs to be very selective. Because as you noted, they tend to be a little bit more expensive so do have a fee hurdle. And then for taxable clients, there's always the question, the after-tax fees, are they compelling as well?
Robert Morier: Is there room for fund of funds? Or do you utilize a fund-of-funds approach in any of the strategies, public or private?
Scott Lavelle: Yeah, public strategy, so hedge fund strategies, we've evolved to where we no longer use fund of funds. On the private side, where we'll use fund of funds is for venture. That's an area where maybe access is more challenging to some of the funds that you'd want to have access to. And a fund of funds, it's worth the extra layer of fees for a fund to fund in that space if it will gain you access to strategies that you otherwise wouldn't be able to access and particularly in a space where manager selection really, really matters. So getting access to, quote, "top-tier" managers is a huge difference. So that's the area where we'll still use fund of funds. But otherwise, we are going directly. We are deciding or choosing the manager.
Robert Morier: Yeah, that makes sense. Staying with the private market discussion, in a recent episode, I asked this particular manager research person if there was a word they could remove from all pitch decks going forward. It would be idiosyncratic. And it's an overused word among managers. And I think if there was a word I could remove from most financial podcasts, it's democratization. It makes sense. I understand why it's being utilized. But when you think about the increase in private market exposure in retail portfolios, how are you, as a manager research person, approaching the cultivation of that list? Getting to the heart of the question is, how have you seen your list develop or change or enhance for your clients when it comes to the ability to be able to select a manager for the private markets book?
Scott Lavelle: We've always been selective, but that's maybe become a bit more of an emphasis. We have, in a measured way, brought on some new strategies, some evergreen products. But we're very selective with those for a few reasons. One, we want to make sure that what we're doing is bringing on a very good investment opportunity and not simply a product to shove assets into. We also want to make sure that the manager has the ability to manage those strategies. Anytime there's a big proliferation in strategies in a particular area or a lot of interest, there's going to be some that are good at it and others that are just trying to jump on the bandwagon, so the skill of the manager in managing the structure and the idiosyncrasies associated with the structure. But also still and most important is the ability to identify good investment opportunities and deliver a compelling return. It has been, for the past several years, a focus for PNC to deliver our best investment thinking to clients, which means alternatives. We recommend an allocation to alternatives. Generally speaking, our clients are under allocated. So to the extent that we can bring strategies to help move them closer to what our recommendation is, we're working towards that. But we're doing that in a way where the strategies need to be very compelling from an investment perspective. We're being selective because we're also trying to make sure that the strategies that we're bringing on, there's assets that will flow into them. And then obviously, just to keep repeating myself, the investment merit of the strategy is most important.
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Robert Morier: How about the operational merit of a business? We've talked in the past about the importance of the operational due diligence. But this is a very broad stroke. But usually, the way it goes is you do the investment RFP and the due diligence. And this is not everyone, but at the very end, the manager research person says, and by the way, we've got this operational due diligence RFP you've got to fill out as well. So I think what that has introduced in some ways into the market is the checklist, just making sure that we've got everything that we know is going to be asked at the end of this process. How do you make it more than a checklist?
Scott Lavelle: Yeah. We have a mantra, which is, you're an analyst. You're not a journalist. And it rhymes. I know journalists have an opinion. But the idea is that you're not just running down a checklist. You got to use your brain. You got to think. And that applies to both investment due diligence and operational due diligence. We've been very fortunate. Years ago, Anna Lui, who is our head of operational due diligence, built a separate team within the team. So it's separate, independent. We do it across both traditional and alternative strategies. The way that I think of it is that… and Anna would agree as well… operational risk is something that you do not get compensated for. Your client is not going to say, I appreciate you investing me with a firm that has poor regulatory controls or a poor infrastructure. There's only downside. So the operational review is so important because what we're trying to do is avoid taking risks that will not get us any extra return.
Robert Morier: I've also never heard someone say, that manager had great insurance. That E&O insurance was exactly what I was looking for.
Scott Lavelle: It's like the offensive lineman. You don't notice them until the quarterback gets crushed. So we're just trying to avoid our quarterback getting crushed. Yeah. But if they're doing their job, you don't have to love the E&O insurance, but if they got it…
Robert Morier: They got it. It makes sense. I appreciate that. Well, here's the question that yields the most results for this podcast. And the question is, what are you working on today? So we have a sense of who you are. We have a sense of your team. We have a general sense of the framework. We could talk for four hours about how things actually work. But what's on the agenda for 2026?
Scott Lavelle: We went through, last year, a couple of years, but last year was the completion of it, of an optimization of the platform. And so the way I think about our platform is, on the traditional side… we talked about our age a little bit earlier… we're, like, a mature person.
Robert Morier: Exactly.
Scott Lavelle: Typically, when you mature, you've accumulated things that you need to let go of. And so that's what we did on the traditional side. We focused the platform. And the driving thought process is, let's focus on the areas where we believe we have the best chance to win. We've got a track record of examining our own decisions. Where are we good at? And then the other is, are we allocating them in the way that is consistent with where our clients are interested in? So that means traditional, I'd say, long-only equity and fixed income are mature. There will be some changes. But typically, I think, there, we're pretty set. Alternatives, I think of us as a young adult in the sense that you're still finding yourself a little bit. Like, you've grown up. You've grown up. Yeah, we've got capabilities.
Robert Morier: But you still have a lot of learning to do.
Scott Lavelle: Yeah. And so that's an area where we will continue to expand, evolve in response to both our client needs, developments in the industry. We have an identity, but I'd say it's maybe still forming. So that's where there will be some growth. But it's going to be measured. And as I mentioned before, dependent on finding great strategies, but also those strategies reflecting the type of exposures that, as the house, we would reflect in client portfolios.
Robert Morier: When you think about real assets in this type of environment, where you've got this potential increasingly inflationary environment and real assets are becoming significantly more topical, is that one of the agenda items? Are you a seasoned pro? Are you an adolescent in that asset class?
Scott Lavelle: That would come from our strategy team… would say that because of this market environment, we need to increase exposure to… these types of strategies could be real assets. Hasn't happened yet. It could happen. As an organization, we've had some offerings. But it isn't a place that we have traditionally had a heavy focus. And if that focus were to happen, it would be driven first by the view from our strategists, which would then tell us that we would need to either increase the offerings we have or maybe what we have would work for the opportunity that they see.
Robert Morier: So just for those listening in, it sounds like the top-down insights that your strategist team are providing you… and I would assume, in some places, publishing… give you a pretty good indication of where time is being spent.
Scott Lavelle: That's correct.
Robert Morier: Great. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Are there some pieces on artificial intelligence in those strategy write ups?
Scott Lavelle: There are.
Robert Morier: And that's not overused yet. I don't think it's going to be used frequently for a while. But where does it show up?
Scott Lavelle: Late last year, it showed up in two targeted ETFs that we included into our model portfolios. So we do, as an organization, have a view that AI is real. It's a game changer, all the things that you hear. We aren't taking a big bet on it, but what we did do is make sure that we were not underweight to the themes. And so the actions we took were to be able to benefit from a broader exposure beyond the large firms, broader exposure to AI-oriented firms, a little bit of a geographic target. But most importantly, it was to make sure that we were not underweight to what we believe is a real theme.
Robert Morier: And before we go, I always like to ask our guests just the people, the mentors that have been important to you in your career. We have been at this long enough where I know you've probably accumulated a few. You don't have to name them by name if you don't prefer, but maybe some of those attributes you touched on, your first manager in the very beginning.
Scott Lavelle: Yeah.
Robert Morier: But I think it's helpful to hear, for everyone who listens in, because for better or worse… and sometimes, it's not the greatest mentor. They could have been very tough on you. So I'd love to hear that.
Scott Lavelle: Yeah, yeah. So well, maybe to that point, there's some people that teach you what not to do. I will not name them. Just for my role, first, I would say Marlene Timberlake D'Adamo, Jim Dunigan, they gave me the chance to lead the manager research team. Many years ago, 2012, I was a relatively new analyst. I had no management experience, and they took a shot on me. So I owe them a lot of credit for believing in me and seeing something in me and having the confidence in me to lead the team. My father was in leadership roles, and he read a lot. One of the things he taught me was that… he did this to me as well. I'm going to hold you to high standards, but I'm going to support you. And if you do that, you'll have a team that's committed to excellence. But they'll also know that you're there to support them and push them and help them achieve their potential. So he's one. And then two others more formally. There's a gentleman, Randall Stutman. Admired Leadership is his firm. He has a different approach. It's a behavioral approach. What he taught me, this is my learnings from him through his firm, his teachings, is you got to be intentional. Decide who you want to be as a leader. So it's his intention. It's an identity. Who do you want to be? And then there's specific behaviors associated with leadership excellence. And his firm's done a lot around that. When the team first evolved to where we had managers of managers, we have people that are great analysts. Now they're managing people. Different mindset. This is this, like, 2017. So this is early days of this. But I gave everyone extreme ownership. Jocko Willink, I know he's very popular now. But the idea of, you are responsible for what's in your world, as a leader and then also it's on you, but it's also not about you. So there's a component of leading that has an element of humility to it. So that's been a teaching. And the idea of humility to me is very important. Best definition I ever heard of it, it's not thinking less of yourself, but it's thinking of yourself less. And so that goes with the team orientation.
Robert Morier: And thank you for sharing your mentors, especially mentioning your dad. It's always nice to hear how family is involved. I think about my dad a lot in that regard. He grew up in the Philadelphia banking sector. His advice was very old school. His advice was, never wear a more expensive suit than your boss. So he had a different mindset. But he did give some sage advice as well. Thank you for sharing that. Before you go, let's have a little fun. I just got off a nine-hour road trip from the University of Tennessee with 17 20-year-olds. And one of their missions for the road trip was to put together a playlist. So it was interesting. I wanted to experience what the youth was listening to and what I wasn't being fed. But I'm interested in what you listen to. So if you're building a playlist, whether you're going for a run or you're going for a drive, what band or musician pops in there the most?
Scott Lavelle: Well, two genres. So my daughter is a huge Zach Bryan fan. So I listen to a lot of that. I think she's gotten me into him. I think phenomenal songwriter and singer. Noah Kahan, that's a big one for her. Lumineers. So a lot of influence from my daughter. And then for me, I'm a product of the '90s. So it's the '90s grunge era.
Robert Morier: It's coming back. That was my observation. That's what they're listening to right now.
Scott Lavelle: Really?
Robert Morier: Yeah, a lot of '90s. Roberto, our producer, would love to hear that too. Lots of '90s grunge.
Scott Lavelle: That's it, man. Typically if I'm in the working-out run, that's what's playing.
Robert Morier: And I asked… it was funny, just for what it's worth… I asked, why? And they said, because they play instruments. And I thought that was so interesting. Because so many kids, stereotypically, you think they want to be DJs, or they want to play electronic music. But there's this real affinity for having a skill. And I think that's something to be said about what's coming up next. Scott, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for being here. I don't want to let you leave without doing a little lightning round. We've been introducing this new framework. 20 questions, short answers. You've given us these very interesting and insightful answers to date. Now we want you to tighten up, kind of like your portfolio managers when they come in to present to you.
Scott Lavelle: All right, let's do it.
Robert Morier: Let's do it. I like it. Morning markets or end-of-day reflection?
Scott Lavelle: Morning markets.
Robert Morier: Coffee before the open or a beer after the close?
Scott Lavelle: Coffee before the open.
Robert Morier: Ok, good for you. I like you're a health guy. Reading research or listening to
podcasts?
Scott Lavelle: Dakota podcasts, listening to podcasts.
Robert Morier: There you go. Great answer. Best answer, I think, so far, Roberto. Long walks or long workouts to clear your head?
Scott Lavelle: Long workouts.
Robert Morier: Ok. Spreadsheets or a conversation?
Scott Lavelle: Conversation.
Robert Morier: Written memos or a live debate?
Scott Lavelle: Written memos.
Robert Morier: Nice. Depth with fewer managers or breadth with more choice?
Scott Lavelle: Depth with fewer managers.
Robert Morier: Portfolio construction or manager selection? What's the biggest driver of outcomes?
Scott Lavelle: Well, I'm a manager selection person at heart, so got to go with manager selection.
Robert Morier: Well, let's find out who you are too. Qualitative edge or quantitative signals?
Scott Lavelle: Qualitative edge.
Robert Morier: There you go. Get to the people.
Scott Lavelle: That's right.
Robert Morier: Active risk or implementation risk?
Scott Lavelle: Active risk.
Robert Morier: Process drift or people turnover?
Scott Lavelle: People turnover.
Robert Morier: What do you see more of?
Scott Lavelle: Probably people turnover.
Robert Morier: Of those two, which one do you think is signaled easier for you to see? Where's the telegraph?
Scott Lavelle: People turnover is easier to see because it happens. More difficulty’s the process drift. Oftentimes, they don't tell you, but it's something that you detect, they being the asset managers or partners.
Robert Morier: Passive as default or passive by design?
Scott Lavelle: Passive by design.
Robert Morier: Ok.
Scott Lavelle: Intention, Rob. Intention.
Robert Morier: Intention. Good. I like it. I think that might be the podcast title, establishing intention with PNC Bank.
Scott Lavelle: Yeah, yeah.
Robert Morier: Early adoption of new strategies or disciplined patience?
Scott Lavelle: Disciplined patience.
Robert Morier: Ok. Philadelphia sports grit or your Boston college roots?
Scott Lavelle: Philadelphia sports.
Robert Morier: I like it. Good answer.
Scott Lavelle: The blood.
Robert Morier: It is in the blood. We can't get rid of it.
Scott Lavelle: No.
Robert Morier: I can't shake it. Every time I say an O, people know where I'm from.
Scott Lavelle: That's right.
Robert Morier: Beach vacation or a city weekend?
Scott Lavelle: Beach vacation.
Robert Morier: There you go. Good answer too. Early night or just one more chapter?
Scott Lavelle: Just one more chapter.
Robert Morier: Excellent. This was a wonderful conversation, Scott. Thank you for being here. Congratulations on all your success. We wish you nothing but more. And we hope you come back to the desk soon.
Scott Lavelle: Thank you, Robert, for the opportunity. This was fantastic.
Robert Morier: If you'd like to learn more about Scott and PNC Bank, please visit their website at www.pnc.com. You can find this episode and past episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform. We're also on YouTube if you prefer to watch while you listen. And for more content, please visit our website at dakota.com. Scott, thank you again for being here. And to our audience, thank you for investing your time with Dakota.